ten years, four wars let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me get it started tonight with this. the united states is now committed to an act of war against the government of syria. okay. let's get the tally up to date. we attacked and went to war with afghanistan in 2001. we attacked and went to war with iraq in 2003. we helped to overthrow the of libya in 2011 and now targeting the government of syria. it's an interesting pattern when you think about it. in 2001, george w and the committed hawks he brought into our government with him including dick cheney talked of going after iraq, a big item on their agenda. it was the first item on their agenda and now looking back and what we're doing now, that's what we're doing, going from country to country setting our sights on government after

government regime change after regime change. night after night, on worldwide television, this country of ours is out there taking sides with anyone who wants to bring down and islamic government. regime change in the islamic world has become our national pasttime. don't believe me? i recommend you stop, look and listen. next stop, iran. joining me is robin wright with the woodrow wilson center and david korn. thank you for joining us. the white house as we all know today is stepping up military aid to the rebels in syria. "the new york times" reports it's likely to mean supplying troops there was small arms and ammunition. heavier weapons have not been ruled out. the today senator king raise add important point where all this could be heading. let's listen to him. >> i'm reluctant and cautious about this because i want to know what the end game is. we've done this before. we've done it three or four times before. and it's just not so easy to go

in, you know, with some kind of surgical strike or something like that. and the question is, once we get in, how do we get out? what's our inition. >> what's our mission, by the way, we're no longer having clean hands. you give guns tops somebody, small arms they're called. they're going to shoot at somebody. who are we encouraging people to shoot at with the guns we're giving them in syria. >> obviously the syrian government. the problem is who do we arm and whether this will make a difference. the likelihood is the small arms the kinds of ammunition and perhaps anti-tank equipment we're talking about probably won't make a serious recent difference in this conflict. >> let me get more primitive. if you give a gun to somebody, you intend them to use it. like lending your car, they're going to drive your car. have we decided the rebels in syria are more in america's national interest than the government of syria which is another baathist government that the doesn't do anything except be a pain in the butt. but it doesn't threaten us.

my question is,ings why are we taking sides in an open war where people are killing other people? >> the assad dynasty has a long record of killing tens of houses of its own people. in one three-week period alone, up to 25,000 people in a ton called hama in 1982. >> you mean we've done the vogue playout since then about the great assad an family? when did we decide they were our mortal enemies is what i'm saying. >> when it comes to the syria las long been the spoiler in the arab/israeli conflict. the. >> we never went to war with the soviet union. >> absolutely right. the question is, will this make a difference. the danger is that it doesn't. >> why are we taking sides? >> that is the question. what is the u.s. interest there. you can have a humanitarian argument that 93,000 people have been killed. mostlily the syrian government. we want to try to do something to end that violence.

>> just a minute. the rebels are fighting the government. >> let me finish. >> that's why they're fighting. >> it's not just if you give a gun they're going to use it. who are you giving the gun to and why are they using it? are they going to be islamist extremist who's use the gun at somebody else or the stinger missile. you have john mccain running around for weeks saying do something. we've got to do something. >> he's not the president. >> he's not the president. >> for a reason. >> the question is, they still can't get their stories straight on who the rebels are and whether they themselves are worth getting in bed with. >> call me old fashioned. shouldn't we have a debate before we go into another war? this is the fourth in ten years. iran is coming. a reasonable national debate. 3/4 of the american people don't believe in this. shouldn't that be a relevant consideration or does the president decide when we go to war. >> almost 70% of the american public is skeptical about going in. >> we don't matter.

>> it was interesting today that eric cantor put out a press release that said this is all of. this is terrible. he himself won't say what is to be done. they know what the polls are. they using this as a cudgel against the president. >> yesterday, ben rhoades, number two or three in the national security staff, i don't know what he is, has a conference call and announces we're going to an act of war against a government. while the president is doing lgbt events somewhere because he doesn't think it's important enough to do it himself. we used to have debate over war. it's in the constitution. now we let some staff guy announce on a conference call we're committing an act of war. it is unusual, robin. politically, this is unusual. >> it may be unusual but remember, we're going in to a big meeting with the g-the world's eight industrial powers in which this will be a key decision where we get our allies on board and what the russians do. but the problem for the united

states both republicans and democrats is that no one has addressed the issue of what it is that we want and how do we do it. do we once we get involved, do we then inherit the problem of what comes next? and rebuilding syria. >> i have visual memories in my mind of an embarrassing humiliating hanging of saddam hussein. we put that on our television and watched that. we're all growing up with this. how now we see a guy named gadhafi. he's hiding in a storm sewer and ends up there. what do we want for the assad family? how do we want this to end on our big day where our military involvement in syria reaches fruition? >> a bunch of crazy people running around shooting at each other saying we won. we take off the head of the assad family and then what? what do we get out of this. >> afghanistan is a better example. we supported the mau jaha dean. they went in and eventually we had a problem in afghanistan because we thought at the

beginning we don't like the communists and this is a way to get involved. >> is anybody doing what i'm doing, questioning this involvement? >> angus king, you and angus. >> independent senator from maine. >> a spokesman for the rebels in syria today said small arms may not be enough. they're making demands. "we welcome the decision but it is a late step." if they send small arms, how can they make a difference? they should help us with anti-tank and anti-aircraft and training and a no-fly zone thrown in. that's the assessment shared by some in washington. the "new york times" reported "many in the american government believe the military balance has tilted so far against the rebels in recent months that american shipments of arms to select groups may be too little too late. why not let assad win? >> he may win. this is not a good scenario. you don't want the region's most brutal dictator to stay in power at this stage. >> how about ten years of civil war, you complain and rightfully

so about people being killed. suppose begive small arms and keep this war festering for another six months or six years or ten years, is that a better outcome. >> the real danger is our involvement makes this not a war about the future of syria but a major powers around the world. >> my biggest concern. >> and then a civil war that plays out in the aftermath of the. >> okay. >> vladimir putin. sitting over in the kremlin sees all this talk about us being a lone superpower. he's not disarmed. he can give the syrian government of assad state-of-the-art aerial defense systems. we start talking about doing some kind of no fly thing, we're at war with russian equipment. at some point he's going to say they want to upset the balance of power by giving more aid to the rebels, i have been holding back on giving defense systems to the assad government. why don't i give it to them now. what stops him from escalating? >> they already have it. since 2007.

>> i just looked at "time" magazine. they said he's been holding back on this. >> he could do more. he could put troops. >> that's what he does now. >> whether we let this be a proxy war matters. what happens, do we want a civil war or not? it's interesting the israelis, they don't seem to be rushing in to support the rebels. i think they actually want a ten-year long civil war between extremists and assad. this can suck us in. you're talking about going up against iran. you want to warn iran, this would lead to a war with iran. >> maybe it's because i read history. i'm going to spain with my boys. i've been thinking about the spanish civil war and the fascists and communists make it into a surrogate war. here's john mccain who has david mention mentioned recently wants a lot more aid to the rebels. here's mccain. let's watch. >> i applaud the president's decision and i appreciate it. but the president of the united states had better understand

that just supplying weapons is not going to change the equation on the ground the balance of power. these people the free syrian army need weapons and heavy weapons to counter thanks and aircraft. they need a no-fly zone. >> let me balanced in my presentations. there's one root to the indyes. one solution here. if we can isolate a rebel group and find the general who left the syrian government and is a credible leader and you're the expert on this, can we isolate the good guys to use a cowboys and indians terms, win with them, get him out of the country, send him to russia, end in a transitional situation which is bloodless and we end up with a better government? >> that's the best case scenario. is it possible? probably not. each one has its own liabilities. the problem is, how quickly can you do it, how many people die in the process. once we cross the threshold of

giving arms, how much more do we get sucked? >> you just saw you john sucking us in. >> we can't achieve the rules we want to, these are all things, everything has 0 come together at the right moment. >> you don't think it's possible to have a good solution. >> it goes back to the world war i phrase. a penny and a pound. john mccain goes back to the floor and says we want this. it doesn't work and you get more and more involved till final u.s. troopses are confronting iranian proxies and has the u.s. in a full war. >> you know what kennedy said about vietnam? jack kennedy said it's like drinking which i do don't do nim. you have one, it keeps wearing off and more. >> if there was a good rebel force, it would make a big difference. >> we had a no-fly zone in iraq for five years and then still had to send in troops. >> sometimes your logic works against your conclusions. you say we're not going to win. why should we go in? >> i'm not suggesting we should

go in. i'm with you we need to have a national debate and discuss these things. we're reacting to a situation and not figuring out what is our long-term goal? what is it we want to do down the road? are we willing to invest in national treasure and american lives in directly or indirectly. >> rebuilding syria afterwards. >> if we had a draft in this country we wouldn't be talking about going to countries like this. any of those. maybe afghanistan because they hit us. but after that, it's all wars of option. >> it's cost free for the people making case. >> army based on con description and the draft doesn't fight wars of option or choice. fights when it has to for national defense. i know i'm speaking about the american people here. robin, david, you're always great. remember when darrell issa announced that in all likelihood the irs scandal began in washington? i love the way he uses that phrase. getting to prove it. where is that proof now? is he ever going to show up or is he going to keep screaming.

the more we see an his investigation is coming apart right now at the seams. also, a who's who have conservative presidential hopefuls are now on bend knee at the faith and freedom coalition whatever it is down in washington. but 1,000 miles away and light years away in time and space in chicago, chris christie of new jersey is with bill and hillary at the clinton global initiative. christie is known as a problem solver. how is he going to convince right wingers to nominate him for president if he's hanging out with bill and hillary and chelsea? time to invoke the mercy rule. the democratic congressional baseball team last night wiped out the republican team. 22-0. that makes five straight wins for them. finally, let me finish with a need to accept that the obama people had nothing to do with the irs screwup. so enough already. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] moving object detection.

♪ blind spot warning. ♪ lane departure warning. safety, down to an art. the nissan altima with safety shield technologies. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ ♪ now you can give yourself a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.

here's a statistic that shouldn't surprise anyone who watches this show on a regular basis. confidence in congress all time low. these are sad numbers. bomb 16 different institutions and only 10% said they had confidence in the united states congress which is at the bottom of the list. television news a little bit better. 23% approval. supreme court much better. 34. the presidency 36 of those approved. topping the list was the military at 76%. that's scary in a certain way. confidence in congress is measured -- reached a peak in 1973 because congress did a great job in changing the presidency. we'll be right back. elping withs expenses while he can't work, he can focus on his recovery. he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage, groceries, or even gas bills. kick! kick... feel it! feel it! feel it! nice work! ♪ you got it! you got it! yes! aflac's gonna help take care of his expenses.

and us...we're gonna get him back in fighting shape. ♪ [ male announcer ] see what's happening behind the scenes at aflac.com. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. [ roars ] ♪ ♪ [ roars ] ♪ [ roars ]

♪ [ male announcer ] universal studios summer of survival. ♪ the whole transcript will be put out. we understand these are in realtime and the administration is still, their paid liar, their spokesperson picture behind, he's still making up things about what happens and calling

this local rogue. this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. >> well, welcome back to "hardball." that was of course, house oversight committee chairman darrell issa vowing to release transcripts that according to him would prove that washington and by inference the white house had coordinated the irs targeting of conservative groups. he said he wants to expose "the full truth but his actions prove otherwise. case in point how he spun the excerpts he has released. on cnn as we just saw, he said that the transcripts proved that the irs officials in cincinnati were directly being ordered from washington. it was that am big jute that opened up the idea that somehow officials outside the irs like at the white house were ordering the targeting. the actual transcript of that irs agent issa is talking about says "i was taking all my directioning from eo technical." that's a unit inside the irs in

washington. very clearly saying he got his leadership from the officials he works with at the irs in washington, not from anybody outside. issa would love to say the phrase washington over and over again so the people think he means maybe at the means somebody from the white house. something else nefarious. josh green from bloomberg business week authored a column today called "darrell issa's irs investigation is falling apart." i'm struck by what comes across to me with what seems to be the integrity of elijah cummings, the ranking member from maryland, the ranking member on the committee that issa heads. he has said he's looked at all the transcripts all the raw data, all the interviews with officials in cincinnati. he's come to the conclusion there's no evidence whatsoever there was any influence from the white house or any politicians to what happened there. screwups, whatever, bad management, whatever.

yet, issa keeps playing this card of washington as if washington many applies something beyond the irs. your thoughts on the honesty going on here? >> just to clarify for your viewers, all of the irs tax lawyers are in washington. even the ones that work on a case by case basis with people in cincinnati who are not tax lawyers. so when a troublesome case comes up, a tricky case, a case ha has law questions, they go to cincinnati -- i'm sorry, to the lawyers in washington. that's what that technical eo unit you were talking about earlier is all about. we do have this heavy handed indication of washington, d.c. washington. >> sleazy intonation that suggests in the war movies, call berlin like there's some sort of washington or hollywood. in this case, it doesn't mean washington generally. it means their head office. >> that's right. look, we've seen the selective release of transcripts. when i see them at first i think there's something there. you go back and look at the fuller transcript that was released after that.

and the picture is a lot more muddy and suggests a person in cincinnati consulting account lawyers in washington. what does this mean and then the lawyers in washington saying can you send us a couple of those cases so we can look at them. that doesn't mean something wrong didn't happen here. it doesn't mean that these delays were unconscionable. it's a very different picture from the white house pushing a button, making a call and ordering this up from the irs. >> the salient debate, issa is trying to conflate the idea that the scandal originated in washington either understand orders from somebody at the irs or the white house with the fact that as nick just said, of course, there are irs lawyers consulting in washington. >> he hasn't found -- correct me, has he found a witness within irs that says i got influenced by somebody outside the irs? >> not that he's put out. >> won't he have done that? >> the piece i wrote is basically based on the fact he said he was going to release

these transcripts. he hasn't. the guy pushing him to do it is the top democrat on the committee cummings. >> i want to show you the timeline issa's behavior and behavior around him all along and they said what do you think is still left in his ammo? june 2nd, you just saw that he released extremely limited pieces of a set of interviews and calls the white house paid liars. he says the full transcripts which he vows to release will prove that washington is the cause without saying irs washington or the white house. he keeps that foggy. june 6th, for politico newspaper reports house leadership had delivered a message to issa, cool it. last sunday in response to issa's selected disclosures, elijah cummings relations other parts of the transcripts that directly contradict issa's assertions. and cummings vows to release the full transcripts if issa won't. that same dais sa says he won't

release any transcripts and attacks cummings as reckless. yesterday cummings called issa's actions hypocritical giving him a monday deadline.top review the transcripts before they're released. on the heels of the cummings letter, issa is widening his probe in addition to the 1 interviews he's done, his committee identifies 20 more officials for future interviews. he keeps interviewing. it's a fishing expedition. has he got any hope or is he just playing for time here? >> at this point it looks like he's playing for time. the important thing is what cummings wants to release is the interview in cincinnati with an irs official who is a self-described conservative republican who says i'm the one who started this. socum mings. >> i'm the one who said target the tea party and the patriot groups. >> let's give these guys -- if that's true, then the scandal couldn't have originated in washington or the white house. that's why democrats are pushing so hard to get these interviews released. >> what do you tell your

editors, at the times, how do you tell them, this story is only going to go so far till issa says i don't have hard evidence of obama involvement or does he just keep -- does he keep saying i'm going to get it? like i'm going to prove this is a scandal when he doesn't have any evidence. >> it's important to stick to the facts, right? we haven't seen as josh points out any evidence of white house involvement. look, i think it's appropriate. >> isn't that enough for the usual criminal trial or any kind of indictment? if you can't show any evidence somebody did anything wrong, don't you sort of stop saying they did something wrong? >> it was an important question to clarify. it was worth finding out because if the white house was involved, that would be a huge problem. but the next step should be, and this is the problem. congressional oversight shouldn't just be about scandal. had it should be about fixing the problem. there were problems with the process. they should figure out next time how to do it better. >> do you think darrell issa

wants to be the guy who immoves the reputation of the irs? no. >> if only for the sake of the groups that were hit up in in that waited years for approval, they shouldn't suffer. he shouldn't want them to suffer. no one should. >> what he should do, issa ought to declare victory and get out now. he can say i pointed to a culture of wasted taxpayer money with these silly conferences. >> he wants obama. >> right. they ought to get out now and move on to something else. say look, i exposed a problem. it's on the path to being fixed. >> darrell issa is aiming for the big-time. he couldn't get elected to the senate. he spent tons of money not getting elected. he thinks he can turn a house seat into the biggest deal in the world. he's doing it now because we're talking about him. up next, nancy pelosi and kathleen sebelius rock out with mary wilson, one of my favorites from my youth on the extremes.

this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ kitt ] you know what's impressive? a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say?

♪ ♪ je t'adore ♪ c'est aujourd'hui ♪ ♪ et toujours ♪ me amour ♪ how about me? [ male announcer ] here's to a life less routine. ♪ and it's un, deux, trois, quatre ♪ ♪ give me some more of that [ male announcer ] the more connected, athletic, seductive lexus rx. ♪ je t'adore, je t'adore, je t'adore ♪ ♪ ♪ s'il vous plait [ male announcer ] this is the pursuit of perfection.

i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners,

and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there. back to "hardball." now the sideshow. what a sideshow. tonight it all came to a head last night for members of congress. congressional baseball game at nationals park where nationals play. republicans versus democrats. republicans went into the game with high hopes despite a four-year losing streak but it was not to be. way not to be. democrats dominated the night. how is this for a baseball score? 22-0. well, democrats had an edge with louisiana congressman and former college player cedric richmond as their pitcher. california democrat linda sanchez was also a crowd

favorite. >> let's go linda. let's go linda. >> solid single for linda. anyway, yesterday marked the 56th annual game between the two sides. next, yesterday's tribute to michigan congressman john dingell who just became the longest serving member of congress in history took a turn for the musical. mary wilson of the supremes. my personal favorite when they came to holy cross back in the '60s serenaded the room with "stop in the name of love," and called on nancy pelosi, kathleen sebelius and others to jump in as backup dancers.

♪ stop in the name of love ♪ ♪ before you break my heart ♪ stop in the name of love ♪ before you break my heart ♪ think it over ♪ ♪ i've tried so hard so hard to be patient ♪ ♪ hoping you'll >> that's the music i listened to in the car driving home at night on xm radio. there were about 400 people in attendance to take in the performance. congressman dingell called himself the luckiest man in shoe leather for his family, friends and time serving michigan. finally a couple of new roadblocks in the republican plan to attract more women and minority voters. what's causing the divide in maine's state legislature over accepting federal money to expand health care coverage? a republican represent in maine thinks he's solved the mystery.

roll the tape. >> if you listen to the debate today, in my mind, a man's mind, i hear really two fundamental issues. from the other side of the aisle, i hear the conversation being about free. this is free. we need to take it and it's free. my brain being a man's brain sort of thinks differently. because i say, well, it's not -- if it's tree free is it really free because i say in my brain, there's a cost to this. >> is man's brain has it all figured out? his man's brain should have said don't talk about men's brains being smarter than other brains. we now turn to virginia and the state republican party's pick for director of african-american engagement, the reverend joel lis son. it looks like ellis son might draw the wrong kind of attention. sample, in 2010 it, pat robertson suggested that the earthquake down in haiti was a result of that country's pact

with the devil made during a voodoo ceremony two centuries ago. well, reverend ellis son, the virginia outreach guy for african-americans, here's what he said at a press conference. >> i know this has angered a lot of the so-called liberals what he said about the comment about haitians and from a spiritual standpoint we believe dr. robertson's points in the past with the voodoo. those who -- should know what dr. robertson said was a biblical truth. >> listen to this nonsense. i'm reminded of the cole porter lyric "that voodoo that you do so well." up next the man who could save the gop. chris christie snubs the faith and freedom coalition.

will conservatives snub him? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover, and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven.

and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. safety is a vital part of bp's commitment to america - and to the nearly 250,000 people who work with us here. we invest more in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. over fifty-five billion dollars here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instead of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm... [ male announcer ] at visa signature, every upgraded experience comes from listening to our cardholders. visa signature. your idea of what a card should be.

i'm seema mody with our market wrap. stocks cut their gains from yesterday across the board. the dow dropped 105 points, s&p 500 lost nine and the nasdaq sank 21. oil prices hit their highest level in nine months as tensions escalate between the u.s. and syria. and industrial projection flat lined in may as manufacturers boosted production but the gain was offset by a drop in utility output. and group upon shares jumped nearly 12% on an analysts upgrade from a hold to a buy. that's it from cnbc. now back to "hardball."

>> we're back. over the past two days, politicians frequently mentioned in the same breath with the words "2016 republican hopeful" have been speaking to religious conservatives at the faith and freedom conference. take a listen. >> the left likes to think that we are the fringe. guess what? you, us, we are the mainstream. >> we're facing a crisis on the family front in this country. the last census numbers depict that fact. 42% of the babies brought into the world today will be brought into the world out of wedlock. it is a breathtaking statistic that describes family life in america today. >> today we have a culture that accepts the wanton disposal of millions of innocent children and sends aid to corrupts that persecute christians. il not rest till this injustice ends. >> i'll go to rely on the christian faith for guidance as

to some of the things i've often looked at both times i'm discouraged and at times i wonder why do i spend these days away from our family? why do you run for office when everything you know about politics tells you you can't win. >> why do you get engaged in in political discourse because you disagree with someone on the definition of marriage, you're called a bigot or hater. >> there's one noticeable exception in that group, chrissiestie sent his regrets since he had another engagement. appearing on the same stage as bill clinton out in chicago at the clinton global in initiative congress. christie's already seen as an pos tate to some on the right given his relationship with obama forged in hurricane sandy. christie and obama sent spent time together on the jersey shore, recently to see how the recovery was going. he doesn't fit the mold of the modern day republican leaning to the right. that raises questions about his

prospects come 2016 and what exactly his strategy is if he chooses to run. joy reed is an msnbc political analyst. susan mill can, "us news and world report." i was thinking when you could win a republican nomination because you are the best candidate, that you come out of nowhere like wendell willkie did in the philadelphia convention and stormed into the big convention out of nowhere, a former democrat and won overwhelmingly because everybody said this is the only guy on this planet who might possibly defeat franklin delano roosevelt. did he give him a hell of a run. he was the best candidate. christie with all his pizazz and performance over the years, can he come into a republican convention filled with christian right wing conservatives and win them as the best secular candidate to take on probably hillary clinton? joy? >> here's the problem for chris christie. and it was what paul ryan said. paul ryan told those people you are the mainstream.

obviously christie disagrees and looking at the broader mainstream of the country and would like to run from something more like the center. but the republican base think they are the mainstream, the far right of the republican party party, they're tired of waiting and being disappointed including by reagan, george bush senior and junior on issues of the culture of life and the culture broadly. he isn't playing in that arena. he can't win them. that doesn't mean he can't necessarily get the nomination. if you look at the history, they didn't like mitt romney either. they weren't want savvy on john mccain. if the establishment wants somebody, the establishment usually wins. >> how do they explain the fact that barack obama won and the fact that the senate is democrat? how do you explain the media which doesn't tend to be right wing competitive for fox? why are so many people in their face disagreeing with them? the country's 80, 90% for some kind of background checks on guns. how do they convince themselves they're the majority on these issues when it's so obvious they're not?

>> it's simple. they tell themselves a story and the story is this. all elections that are won by democrats are won by fraud. we didn't really lose. >> that's a third world way of talking. that's what they do in third world countries. everybody stole everything everything. >> they don't believe the reality in front of their face. they choose to believe the reality on talk radio and fox. they choose to believe that reality. >> wow. how do you fix that thinking? that's pretty tough. i agree because how else do you explain why they want to run a suicidal campaign. >> there's been a lot of demographic changes in this country. when the tea party has the signs that says we want our country back and the pictures they hold up with the african-american president that's not an accident. their panic over losing the world they knew 30 years ago is greater than the panic they have overnot winning a presidential election. as long as that is the case, i

don't think they're going to nominate somebody like christie. >> alex wagner's great show today, president clinton, she got bill clinton who was asked about christie's penchant for working with democrats like president obama. here's the political expert of the century here, bill clinton talking. >> in the culture of the northeast, if you're a republican and you want to get elected and get reelected by partisanship is imperative. in the sort of the way we've separated out our cultures, in the deep south and some of the intermountain west, if you want to do that, you get creamed. >> you know, he's amazingly smart and makes it simple there. it's geography. >> that is true in the actually governing of the country. we're in a post governing phase of american history. the republican party is no longer coming to washington to govern. they've come to serve this ideology they feel if it's not the majority should be and they

want to dominate the country. if you think about chris christie's actual prospects, could win new hampshire? sure. could he win south carolina, no. he could probably win florida. he does have the one thing he probably would need if he wants to be competitive. he's right near wall street. if the money wing of the party decides he's the best way to go against clinton, it's hard to believe this base could stop it except that the tea party has proved that when they want something badly enough, they can take over the party. they can gum up the works and grab hold of it. >> you're so smart, joy. i'm going to ask susan first, who wins ohio, hillary versus christie? that's the state we can always look at as the bellwether. >> i think hillary. >> the union issue is so he fresh in ohio. >> you're making the point on the right, they might, as well have fun because they're going to lose anyway. enjoy the joy ride because if you're going to lose with a practical candidate like christie, why run him? >> because the tea party won in

2010 and the country got to experience them in swing states like ohio, wisconsin, michigan, those states are lost to them he because the people in those states have risen up and said we don't want to go this far. i think those states go back to the democrats. christie could have if we hadn't had the tea party. >> there is christie and the former president having a nice chat. they'll make news for tomorrow. joy reed and susan mill gan, thanks for joining us. we'll be right back. the most free research reports, customizable charts, powerful screening tools, and guaranteed 1-second trades. and at the center of it all is a surprisingly low price -- just $7.95. in fact, fidelity gives you lower trade commissions than schwab, td ameritrade, and etrade.

i'm monica santiago of fidelity investments, and low fees and commissions are another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. since i've been using crest pro-health, i've noticed a huge improvement. [ male announcer ] go pro for a clean that's up to four times better, try these crest pro-health products together. the toothpaste is really awesome. it cleans a lot. [ male announcer ] crest pro-health protects not just some, but all these areas dentists check most. this is gonna be a very good checkup. i feel it. [ male announcer ] go pro with crest pro-health. my dentist was so proud of my teeth today. after using crest pro-health for a few weeks, i just feel brighter, fresher, cleaner.

remember when barbara bush said the country has had enough bushes and perhaps your son jeb shouldn't run next time? apparently not everyone in the bush clan agrees. jeb was asked on abc how his dad george herbert walker bush feels on that. his answer, i think we've got a split ballot amongst the bush senior family. in fact, jeb spoke today at the faith and freedom coalition we just showed him. i think he's running. we'll be right back. with angie's list, i save time, money, and i avoid frustration. you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. you want to be sure the money you're about to spend is money well spent.

angie's list -- reviews you can trust. from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet?

yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] for dad's first job as dad. nissan tests hundreds of child seats to give you a better fit and a safer trip. snug kids, only from nissan. ♪ obviously, this is a great way for us to celebrate father's

day and just to remind ourselves those of us who are fathers how lucky we are. it's the best job i've got. and i know that all the fathers here feel the same way. and the idea idea that we might afternoon ice cream is always good. >> wow, it's father's day this weekend, of course. it's a whole new world out there for the american father, according to the latest statistics. just this week golfer phil mickelson did something really amazing. he traveled all night before his first round at the u.s. open at merion country club outside philly, arriving with just 90 minutes to spare. he attended his eighth grade graduation and shot a 3 under par 67. he is just off the lead. that's anecdotal. pugh research has the facts about how much more involved today's fathers are in home life. fathers spend three times as many hours per week with their children as they did back in

'65. 1965, though. 7.3 hours per week, and still about half the time mothers spend. i did the statistics. fathers even at their best, the new fathers with about 10% of their waking life. it's not dramatically better. they fathers spend more than double the hours per week doing housework than they did back in '65, although again, mothers still do twice as much housework as fathers, generally. and one of the starkest changes, mothers are now the sole or primary bread winner in 40% of all households, two out of five. in 1960 that was just 11% of the homes. that's a big change, women carrying the money load in households across the country. joining me are two modern american fathers we think, msnbc contributor and former u.s. congressman patrick murphy of pennsylvania, and "time" magazine's michael shearer, who wrote this week's cover story on the nsa. there it was. we were taken, michael, our producers and i, with what a good father you are, because you make decisions that don't

necessarily help you at work, but definitely make your fatherhood more richer. >> yeah. i -- well, i don't see myself as a hero here. i think i'd say it's always a trade-off. you can never do it all. you're either going to be hurting your work or hurting your family, and you have to make those decisions. you're going to have to leave work and not do as good a job as you would if you were single and able to stay at the office all night as i once was able when i was single. >> women for years when they work outside the home have this terrible tension. i'm at work, i should be at home. i'm at home, i should be at work. >> i feel bad if i'm not home by 6:00. and i'm often not home by 6:00 and i feel bad. right now my family is going out the have pizza. i'll get there late. that pulls on you. every choice you make is a choice between one or the other, and there is no way of doing it all there no right answer. >> my dad always sitting at the table at 6:00, where is the dinner. only a different way of ruling back then. much more male dominant, i got to tell you. well, patrick, your happiness

story. please still us how you live and how you're a great dad, if you are. >> well, try to be, chris. the key is i think it's quality over quantity. we all wish we could spend more time with our children. have i two little once. maggie is 6, jack is 3. i know my daughter just graduated kindergarten last week, and i rushed from the studios in new york to be home for that 6:00 graduation. and, you know, it's a balance. but when you have a partner -- i have been very blessed. i have a great wife who also works outside the home. but we balance it. we're a team. one is not more important than the other. and i think that the kids see that as a role model and understand it's a partnership, and we love them, and we try to spend as much quality time as we possibly can. >> do you know all your kids' teachers? >> i do. mrs. morrison is a terrific teacher. >> you know their names. >> oh, yes. toni morrison. and sister mary teaches religion class. >> do you know what shots the kids have had? >> who, me or michael? >> do you know what shots the

kids have had? it's still on you. >> no problem. my wife will tell you, chris, i don't do enough. >> michael, do you know what shots the kids have had? >> i don't know the shots. i got the teachers. i spent today on a field trip with my older son. >> if you had to answer the shots. >> i would go to my wife or the doctor. >> can i tell you a story? the worst thing in the world is i'm there when i take my kids to get the shots and specially my son jack two w.h.o. got his shots two years ago. and to have to hold his arms down in the chair while the nurse is doing it, it's the worst feeling in the world. but you to take care of the little guy so he doesn't get sick. >> it's different. thank you. my dad was a hardworking guy. my mom kept the checkbook, everything. who keeps the checkbook? i won't ask that one. patrick murphy, thank you, and michael shearer, good daddies for the weekend. and julia waits for me i hope tonight. when we return, let me finish with darrell issa and his

so-called ires investigation, which is nothing of the sort. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. mmy's having a french fry. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ]

[ male announcer ] that's why there's ocuvite to help replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin

to help protect your eye health. ocuvite. help protect your eye health.

let me finish tonight with this. i'd like to say something now about this thing at the irs. if elijah cummings is right, it's not a scandal, it's more like a screw-up. if it's about something that happened at the irs itself or beyond that, it doesn't look right now. if there is no reason to believe that the obama people were

involved in singling out the tea party and the patriot groups looking for tax exempt status, then let's be honest, everyone, and say so. isn't that the fair thing to do? innocent until proven guilty? or is there is a new rule across the land that you can keep accusing someone as long as you darn well please, as long as you have a mic in your hand or a committee chairmanship. if that's the rule of the game, common sense is out the window. if all you're doing is calling names, you're no different than the bully in the schoolyard recess yard, the bully who mocks and humiliates and is the worst memory from our youths. the person who is everything wrong in human life. the kid who we try and if fortunate are able to leave behind in human society's back wash. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us, and all of you dads out there, have a happy's father's day. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris. and thanks to you for tuning. in i'm live tonight from

phoenix, arizona. tonight's lead, change you can't believe in. after getting routed in the election, republicans said they had seen the light. they promised to change. they performed autopsies. they went on retreats. they vowed to be a more accepting party. but today at ralph reed's faith and freedom conference, it was clear that their talk of change was just talk. now that paul ryan himself didn't try, he took center stage to say the party is not so extreme. really is not. just trust him on this. >> the left likes to think that we are the fringe. guess what? you, us, we are the mainstream. when you take a look at what is happening, the goal we have in front of us i